Labour MP Clive Lewis on the UK’s energized far-right

As President Trump’s state go to to the UK begins, demonstrations that came about within the streets of London have pointed to a fraught political second for the island nation.

These protests have included a sea of flags carried by contributors — each of the St. George’s Cross and the Union flag, which some say has been adopted by the far-right.

Many waved the flag of England – white with a pink cross – which has been related to the far proper. however in addition they waved the flag of the UK – the Union Jack – which has not.

One of many many Brits who watched that large march in London final weekend was Clive Lewis, a member of Parliament affiliated with the left-leaning Labour celebration.

Lewis has spent loads of time occupied with what it means to be British and what it means to wave the Union Jack. He grew up in Northampton, with an English mom and a father from Grenada, within the Caribbean.

Lewis joined All Issues Thought-about host Mary Louise Kelly on Tuesday to share his ideas on the present state of his nation.

This interview has been flippantly edited for size and readability.

Interview highlights

Mary Louise Kelly: What was high of thoughts for you as you watched [the protest]? I noticed estimates of 150,000 individuals on the streets of London for a march organized by the hard-right activist Tommy Robinson.

Clive Lewis: I feel, like many different individuals, I anticipated a smaller demonstration of what you’d name the hardcore — the form of hardened Tommy Robinson supporters.

It was large. I feel for lots of people watching that, your instant response is, “Is this 200,000 hardened racists and fascists marching in the streets of London?”

And I sat in my window and I regarded down into the gang. And there have been individuals who perhaps — with the banners they have been holding — match that description.

However lots of them simply gave the impression to be folks that I acknowledge — individuals I grew up with, individuals I stay subsequent door to. That really was extra terrifying.

I really had a superb faculty good friend who messaged me to say, “I’m on the march.”

He is white English. I am combined heritage. And I used to be like, “What are you doing on this march?” And he was like, “I’m here. I want to be listened to. I want to feel proud of my country again.”

Now, I do know he is an important man. He is considered one of my finest mates and he is acquired Black household that appear to be me. And he was on the march. In order that instantly bolstered the view that, OK, this can be a lot extra advanced. You possibly can’t simply put all of those individuals right into a field now.

There are individuals who could also be on a trajectory in the direction of a more durable right-wing form of perspective, however really they are not there but.

Kelly: You posted after the march, concerning the extent to which British establishments like railways or the well being system, the NHS, how they have been hollowed out and it leaves individuals feeling disconnected, feeling powerless. Say extra.

Lewis: MP Nigel Farage is our equal of Donald Trump, in some methods, politically. And I’ve observed as of late that that is somebody who principally champions large oil. He champions wealth. He champions low tax.

However I’ve observed as of late, even he has begun — as did Donald Trump earlier than the final election — began speaking about what individuals would name a form of much more socialist form of rhetoric and language concerning the economic system in some areas the place issues aren’t working.

King Charles III and President Trump at Windsor Fortress on Wednesday.

Anna Moneymaker/Getty Pictures

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There are areas the place he understands that individuals are offended with the established order. They’re offended with how their economic system has been hollowed out, the well being care system and all of this stuff. Now, individuals are more and more skeptical, more and more saying, “I don’t trust you.”

They really feel marginalized and so they really feel unlistened to. And the primary individuals out of the block to say, “We hear you and we’re going to change that” are the precise.

Kelly: I used to be studying that the rally over the weekend right here was organized partially to honor the American conservative activist Charlie Kirk, who was shot and killed final week. As you watch, from this facet of the Atlantic, occasions enjoying out in America, together with the very partisan debate that has adopted Kirk’s loss of life, something resonate for you?

Lewis: I feel it is very comparable. We’re perhaps a number of years behind you. I do not assume we’re as deeply divided as you but. I feel the division of — notably in wealth and energy is starker in america, however we’re catching up quickly.