Angela Merkel and the way forward for NATO below a second Trump time period

There are few world leaders who can declare to have labored carefully with 4 U.S. presidents. However Chancellor Angela Merkel can.

She is the one lady to ever lead Germany, and her 16-year tenure as chancellor made her one of many longest-serving leaders within the European Union.

Raised in Soviet-ruled East Germany, Merkel has stated she by no means felt just like the GDR was her dwelling nation. She received concerned in politics in her 30s, simply after the autumn of the Berlin Wall in 1989. By that time, she had already acquired a doctorate in quantum physics.

She discusses all of this and extra in her new ebook, Freedom. All Issues Thought-about host Mary Louise Kelly spoke to Merkel about feminism, Vladimir Putin, a second Donald Trump presidency, and extra.

The transcript of this interview is of the simultaneous English translation of Angela Merkel’s responses, which had been in German.

Interview highlights

Mary Louise Kelly: You describe a second in 2017. You had been on stage on the G20. You had been requested, “Do you see yourself as a feminist?” And also you needed to actually give it some thought. Why?

Angela Merkel: Properly, it was a type of preparatory assembly for the G20 assembly in Germany, in Hamburg. And I used to be requested that query. I had to consider that for a second, as a result of with classical feminism in Germany, I hyperlink up one thing meaning that there have been actual activists, feminine activists for girls’s rights — and I used to be not a part of them. And I considered that, and in the midst of my political profession, I received to the conviction that equality, the participation of ladies isn’t one thing that comes about robotically. And that due to this fact, I’ve to face up and I’ve stood up and turn into lively for girls’s quotas, for the promotion and improvement of ladies. And due to this fact, in my ebook, in my approach, I write now that I’ve been a feminist, as a result of I’ve at all times advocated the equal participation of men and women on this planet.

Kelly: So, if I ask you immediately in 2024, do you see your self as a feminist? What is the reply?

Merkel: Sure. In my approach, I really feel as a feminist. Sure.

Kelly: One of many many male leaders you’ve gotten wrangled with is Vladimir Putin. And I need to spend a bit time on him and what you’ve gotten realized from coping with him. You had been famously afraid of canines. Putin is aware of this. Would you inform me what occurred in Sochi (a metropolis in Russia) in 2017?

Merkel: Properly, he knew about it. I already informed him once I first noticed him formally. Nonetheless, once I got here to the official go to in 2006 in Moscow, he already gave me a pet canine as a present. And in Sochi, I noticed his actual canine.

Kelly: A toy pet canine, proper?

Merkel: And it was a toy. And it was an try to essentially attempt to type of encourage concern into me, in a sure approach. However I attempted to not let him know and to not let him sense it. And whereas I attempted to go on enterprise as traditional, and we began our speak.

Kelly: You stated you tried to not present concern. Did you are feeling concern?

Merkel: No. At that very second, I used to be not fearful. I used to be completely assured that President Putin already knew that nothing aggressive might have occurred, and due to this fact I did not really feel any concern.

Kelly: So, with this as a backdrop for the best way that you simply two have interacted, you write at size within the ebook about Russia, about Ukraine. And I need to give attention to one second in 2014. “Little green men” have appeared to occupy Crimea, the Ukrainian peninsula. And also you write, Chancellor, that you simply confronted Putin on the cellphone. Your phrase — that you simply “confronted him” — not that you simply referred to as him, along with your suspicion that these armed males carrying inexperienced uniforms had been, actually, Russian troopers. And also you say, he replied with a barefaced lie. What occurred in that decision?

Merkel: Properly, already when he referred to as me up, I used to be absolutely conscious that it was probably that these had been navy forces from Russia on Crimea. And that, in fact, has modified my relations with Putin. We had controversies, at all times. We had controversial talks and discussions, at all times. However up till then, it was my feeling that he did not inform any lies. And this was a lie. And he admitted to that afterward. And that has basically modified our relationship as a result of I at all times needed to be very cautious, not figuring out whether or not he was telling the reality or not. And that is what I describe within the ebook.

Kelly: And also you write, and I am quoting: “The rule breaker was setting the terms he had to be stopped.” I am going to make the apparent level – that was 10 years in the past. He hasn’t stopped. He stored going, and right here we’re, a decade later. With the advantage of hindsight, ought to Germany, ought to NATO have finished extra?

Merkel: After all, when writing the ebook, I’ve requested myself that very query. And searching again, I feel it was good and proper to strive all the things to discover a peaceable answer to the battle between Russia and Ukraine as a result of we see the excessive variety of victims now. That has not been profitable. And I additionally write within the ebook that, from my perspective, the COVID pandemic has made it much more troublesome to search out options to the issue, as a result of over a really lengthy time period we now have not been capable of get in contact personally. We solely had contacts by way of phone. We begin[ed] a struggle of aggression in February 2014 — Russia’s struggle of aggression towards Ukraine. The world has basically modified — specifically for us, the Europeans. And now, we have to present navy energy to reply to this. And within the mid-term, in fact, we additionally want to search out methods to place an finish to this struggle, however in a approach that Ukraine stays a sovereign state – a state that may make its personal selections and choices.

Kelly: I assume the large image query is, did you underestimate Vladimir Putin?

Merkel: No, I do not assume so. For that very purpose, already in 2008 in Bucharest, when there was a NATO summit, I used to be against accepting Ukraine too rapidly into NATO. In 2008, already we [had] seen that he attacked Georgia. And on the time, I believed that we should always do all the things that was attainable to search out peaceable options, however I’ve not underestimated him. I used to be stuffed with concern and worries that truly we might find yourself in a powerful battle. And in 2022, properly, we discovered that this was true.

Kelly: And right here we’re once more. He ended up beginning the most important battle in Europe since World Struggle II. Tens of hundreds of individuals have died. Nothing might have been finished to cease it?

Merkel: Up till now, nobody has discovered such a chance, however I’m not actively concerned in politics. I can solely write about this. And those that assist Ukraine immediately ought to work, should work along with Ukraine to search out options to place an finish to this battle. However I can not make any contribution as a result of my lively political time has come to an finish.

Kelly: You additionally wrote about Donald Trump and about assembly him on the White Home after he was elected president. This was 2017. And that you simply flew dwelling from that assembly feeling uneasy. Why?

Merkel: Donald Trump, as president, was an individual who very strongly supported his concepts. That is pure. That is what each president of america of America does, as each chancellor does. However Donald Trump, lower than others, believes within the functionality or the standard of a compromise. He needs to be the only real winner in any kind of battle, and he doesn’t imagine in any win-win state of affairs the place either side profit from an answer. And that makes the collaboration harder and totally different than different heads of presidency.

Kelly: He referred to as into query NATO as a collaborative safety alliance. As you recognize, many individuals are questioning whether or not this second— his reelection— indicators the top of the post-World Struggle II period of American management on this planet. Does it?

Merkel: I hope that President-elect Trump, as he did in his first time period of workplace, now additionally understands that NATO doesn’t solely serve the aim of defending Europe, with the assist of the U.S. and Canada, however that the partnership with Europe can be a profit for america of America. As a result of collectively, [we are] a lot stronger towards these [who] are not looking for our lifestyle — Russia, China. It signifies that there are good causes, even for america of America, to need NATO to be robust. What we now have understood in Europe, and specifically in Germany, is that we have to do extra for our protection, which we didn’t do sufficiently up to now.

Kelly: So, is {that a} no to my query? This isn’t the top of U.S. management on the world stage?

Merkel: I don’t need to imagine that that is the top of U.S. management. I do not imagine it, and I hope not.

Kelly: I need to deliver it to an finish, circling again to the place we started — questions on being a girl chief. Donald Trump is a person recognized to hurl insults at girls. He makes use of misogynistic language. He has attacked Nancy Pelosi as evil, sick and loopy. He referred to as Kamala Harris low IQ and silly. He talks about grabbing girls by their genitals. He is been held responsible for sexual abuse. Did you ever sense that he underestimated you as a result of you’re a lady?

Merkel: No, I didn’t have that feeling. I feel I used to be the personification of Germany for him. Partly he was a bit tough in direction of us relating to tariffs, relating to all our financial energy as a rustic – we talked about that continuously. However what you’ve gotten simply described is one thing that I can not affirm.

Kelly: So, final query. Something you prefer to People to listen to straight from you as we grapple with a brand new chapter in our management right here?

Merkel: …There are a lot of residents of america of America that shield the establishments of america: the courts, the justice system, the free elections. That many individuals get up for compromises for the truth that we will kind out disputes peacefully and inmates of excellent discussions, and that we get good options past political borders. As a result of that speechlessness, the potential to not communicate anymore and to insult one another, I feel this can be a step backward in civilization. And I might assume that many individuals ought to get up towards that and put science up towards that.